TV Tonight launches the Late List
TV Tonight is adding a new section for you to name and shame the worst offenders in late programming.
- Published by David Knox
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- Filed under News, Top Stories
TV Tonight is adding a new section: the Late List.
In response to on-going viewer complaints about programmes continually starting and finishing late, this will operate as a crowd-sourcing chance for you to name and shame them.
When you see a programme starting later than its advertised time, you can register the information on the Late List. Over time, this will accrue some of the worst offenders. That information will then be published periodically.
Today the Sunday Age and the Sun-Herald have announced the Late List in an article about late programming, and the results of the Audience Inventory.
Over the last four years the annual survey has shown viewers’ #1 gripe is late starting / finishing times, together with EPGs not being updated. Readers named ABC, Foxtel and SBS as the most reliable networks for punctuality with Nine, Seven and TEN the most unreliable. An OzTAM report commissioned by The Sunday Age supports the results.
Nine’s Melbourne programming chief, Len Downs, told Fairfax, ”One has to be honest about it.
”When your goal is winning the ratings and you’ve got a successful show, it becomes tactical. If you’ve got the opportunity to overrun the start of a competing program, then that’s what you do.”
The Late List will be added to the site’s main menu and trialled until the end of the ratings season with a view to becoming a permanent feature.
You can check it out here.
55 Responses
Good idea.Since the FTA stations are now aware of this they might actually do something about it
For a single show, yes. But what of the whole landscape? Who are the worst offenders and at what point should viewers reasonably assume they can no longer trust a network to broadcast a certain genre of show in a watchable manner?
You have some excellent and detailed posts on individual cases. And if there’s a single tag you use for these they could even all be listed in a search result. But that’s not the same as stating ‘This channel has performed major scheduling changes on 3 dramas and 5 sci-fi shows in the last twelve months’, backed up with the data. I would have thought a lot of readers (including channel ad bookers) would be interested in that.
The whole landscape was summed up by readers in the Audience Inventory. The next snapshot of landscape will be via Late List data.
This is a great initiative. It would be very useful to also have a single place on the site to track all the shows networks have made virtually unwatchable by changing times, days and broadcast order, totally abandoning the schedule, and pulling shows mid-season.
With late starts, at least the viewer can get into the habit of recording important shows and adding on half an hour. (Eps can sometimes start several mins early, too, of course.)
But hiding the season finale of a show on a totally different day (as Nine recently did with Fringe) is a crime against TV Land, and it would be great to name and shame the worst repeat offenders!
The best way to track a show’s movements is to use Show Tags.
A sterling idea, David. Perhaps it would be less work if, for 7, 9, and 10, we only made an entry whenever a program actually started at the advertised time? You’re welcome.
Re commercial digital channels: not watching a lot these days but they seem to mostly be within a couple of minutes of advertised times, altho’ they will start early as often as late.
This comment is advertised to be be posted at 3pm!
If OzTam records in half hour blocks, why not just record at 10, 15 and 20 minutes into the block and average. Or is that too easy?
Then again, OzTam is only concerned with numbers/time not number/show.
I called the ACMA today regarding TEN’s EPG not reflecting accurate start/finish times from Saturday-Monday. They seemed very concerned the accuracy issue has been going on for 6 months and they [TEN] have failed to pick up on the problem, particularly from the Parental Lock-Out aspect. The guy I spoke to looked at TEN’s EPG while I was on the phone with him and he agreed there is a problem. He has sent an email to TEN’s Senior Broadcast Engineer requesting an explanation. Fingers crossed action will be taken.
At the moment, The X Factor…..it was about 30 minutes overtime on Monday.
Hi David, I have a quick question about completing the Late List. The section “Advertised Time (EPG)”, should this be the time stated on the free-to-air EPG? Foxtel’s EPG has different start/finish times than the free-to-air EPG.
Would you consider having sections on the Late List like so:
Advertised Time (Free-to-Air EPG)
Advertised Time (Foxtel EPG)
Whichever EPG you are using. If you see a time that differs from the airtime, regardless of which, you can file it.
@darkolandbox: Best check your time zone settings via manual settings on both sets, I live in northern NSW (prime 7, abc,sbs) near Qld border, on good days I receive up to 39 channels(but myswitch experts can still not tell me where we get the toowoomba, darling downs and qld abc and sbs signals from and nor do they seem to care.
@david knox Many thanks for your late list efforts , and jokingly not showing ingratitude,but there seems to be a box missing in the late list? there should be a box for “All Channels At All Times”, except for the programming of the commercials(Adds) as they seem to be able to co-ordinate them to within seconds.
In general it seems to me that going digital has definitely improved picture quality(most times) for us in the bush. But programming timing and accuracy seems to have gone the same way as the analogue network, but what I find most frustrating and unfortunately with the ABC one of the most reliable of programmers, is where if I use EPG to record to USB, the ABC regularly change regular programmes such as 7.30 rep. catalyst, gruen, 4 corners, media watch, QandA and lateline etc, and whilst usually very accurate to scheduled programme times etc.
Unfortunately the ABC will vary start/finish times by only a minute or two each day/week, this then conflicts with the previous EPG settings for daily programmes, seems a shame with all the sophisticated USB and TV’s etc now available, these minute changes mean much deleting of pre programmed EPG settings. Shame! with a little more thought by a few, thousands would find life so much easier and possibly vastly reduce dis-satisfactory reports and comments
@ davodavo6666
Not sure what area you’re in, but…
Up here on the Qld/NSW border, the regional stations used to have rubbish EPG times.
I noticed in my travels that in some other areas, they were quite accurate, so I called Prime and NBN one day to ask why the difference? Spoke to some very pleasant and helpful techs (unlike when calling the metro stations) who were surprised nobody had complained, as this was a glitch. It was fixed the-next-day in both cases and hasn’t gone wrong since.
Perhaps a call to your local station? Or, call the ACMA. Stations are actually supposed to broadcast accurate EPG data, despite opinions to the contrary.
ACMA is supposed to monitor networks for EPG accuracy.
Darwinite: You can include Foxtel and include early starts in the fields provided.
Should cable also be added to this but for the early start list?. Recorded something the other day, always have a 5 minute buffer for the start and still missed the start of the show.
Have now added further start buffer so I don’t miss the start of the show for next time.
@ William
The ACMA call it breaching. You know something they don’t?
Last Monday night, Suits was running at least 25 minutes late on 7 Sydney. Had it on IQ and totally missed the end. Cranky.
This goes back a while now but does anyone remember when 2.5 men took over at 9 as their 7pm offering in 2008.We were waiting somewhere between 5 and 8 minutes past the hour for A Trashy Current Affair to end and for the laughter to start.There are others I could list too.
Classic example,wanted a shower but still wanted to watch Mrs Browns Boys.
No problems, had shower and sat down in front of TV and its just starting now at exactly 15 mins late,bless you channel 7.
msd- They actually update it on their EPGs on Saturday’s but when Sunday comes it just goes back to the normal time I hardly called that breaching
great idea, though i cant believe that nine’s melbourne program chief is actually, honest/arrogant enough to admit finishing programs late as a ratings strategy.
also congrats on this feature being covered in in The Age, hopefully this will mean that people who don’t know about tvtonight will now vist the site to report late start times as well as become regular readers.
I remind myself of 5 examples.
Nine’s short lived “The Boss is Coming to Dinner”. 8:35-9:48 pm
The Project “Last Thursday”. 6:00-7:04 pm. Enough time for Kar-(trashian).
MasterChef “Ep in S2”. 7:30-8:41 pm.
MKR “Monday ep this year”. 7:37-8:48 pm.
MasterChef Finale S2 2010. 7:30-9:55 pm! Was due 9:30 pm. That’s 25 minutes to far!!!
One thing the newspaper article forgets is BB 2012! That’s already OT and tomorrow is 7:01-8:38 pm!
Sorry about the ! everywhere, but it gets so annoying time after time, day after day, network after network.
David….I watch 7TWO a lot….and they can run late ….quite often and quite late…cannot recall actuals right now…but will make notes in future…
@Aussie
Yep, same issue with 7 everywhere. Their multichannels are ok, but the main one is only seeing the EPG updated sporadically and when it is it only applies until midnight that night.
I’d suggest contacting the ACMA, they have a group who look after EPG issues and their guidelines. They put me in touch with one of the ‘engineers’ at 7 who is an evasive little person. It would appear that at the moment 7 are holding back the EPG accuracy updates on the nights that this serves their agenda. (as the quote from Len Downs bears out).
9 are actually being good about the accuracy updates (in an offhanded way), they are sending them out well in advance. Trouble is, they’re not actually accurate. On Tuesday nights I’ve noted that shows like Anger Management always start a good 3 to 4 minutes late, even when the EPG has been updated.
The multichannel guides suck in regional areas. I’ve seen late night shows on 11 (like Sex and the City) and 7mate (Blokesworld) start 15 minutes late. In general, if you flick between metro and regional broadcasts metro have times like 10.38 whereas regional still have 10.30 and the start exactly the same time. I live on the Sunshine Coast.
David,
The multichannels tend to be a lot more accurate. Having said that, none of the commercial staions show more than a day and a half of accurate times into the future.
Currently both 10 and 7 are playing sillybuggers with their main channel, deliberately holding back accurate EPG data until a matter of hours out from broadcast. This is against the ACMA guidelines too, but having spoken to them, it turns out they are a bit of a toothless tiger.
This is ridiculous, given that all programming and advertising is distributed using digital media that carries the EPG data with it. There is no reason they can’t broadcast an accurate EPG a week into the future… As the ABC already do.
Is it a requirement of their license that the EPG is sent out with the digital signal? Surely it has to be accurate? I dont mind them being late now and again but i do object to them deciding to not tell me.
I’ve gone 360 on it,up until a few months ago it annoyed the hell out of me now i plan around it I find it often means I get to finish the one I am watching with enough time to get a drink do whats natural and move on.