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Goodbye 8:30. Programmers agree Junctions are “irrelevant” in 2015

Exclusive: TV Programmers agree that standard TV times are a thing of the past, but EPGs should stay accurate.

2015-02-17_2332EXCLUSIVE: There was once a time when viewers used were able to set their TVs to their clock: 8:00, 8:30, 9:00, 9:30.

Now a show can begin at 7:40, 7:45, 8:45, 9:10, 9:35.

With so much advertising dollars at stake and fragmenting audiences networks are using every tool at their device, to flow audiences from show to show and minimise the risk of changing channels. It means a show can start anytime on any network.

TV Tonight asked network Programmers about the importance of Junctions in the schedule. It’s bad news for those hoping to return to old habits, but there is a quiet consensus amid a changing landscape.

“Kerry Packer used to phone up…. ‘Why was it three minutes late? We have to get it on time.'”

ANDREW BACKWELL, Nine:

Junctions are not as important as they used to be. I remember years ago when Kerry Packer was at the station, he used to phone up Michael Healy, who was obviously the scheduler at the time and say: ‘This show started three minutes late. Why was it three minutes late? We have to get it on time.’ He was very adamant that we had to hit the Junctions.

What I think has happened is all these junctions have now become very fluid. If you’ve got a big show like MKR, and for example it’s pumping along, doing 1.6 million and you try and start a show; when that show is finishing at 8:45, but you try and start at 8:30, to get the viewers to leave that show 15 minutes before the end, and come across, it’s impossible. You’re not going to get them through.

When you’ve got big dominant shows like that, you have to match the Junctions. If they finished at 8:45, the junction now should be at 8:45, so you’ve got a chance to get some of the viewers across to your channel.

And, vice versa: if we’ve got a big show on Nine, (such as) The Voice. The opposition wants to match our ‘out’ times. So it’s very hard, to get the audience to come and sample your product.

Once they’ve missed the first 15 minutes of a drama, it’s impossible to get them across. They don’t know what’s going on. You won’t get them in.

So, with all this such competition, these Junctions are very fluid now.

For audiences, as long as we tell them when shows start and end…. it’s important that we get the start of shows on the Guide correct, on the EPG correct, so they can record it. I personally don’t think the Junctions matter as much as they did.

“It’s important our audience knows where the shows are and we don’t disrespect people.”

BEVERLEY McGARVEY, TEN:

I think more important than Junctions is accuracy in the information. If the EPG is correct, if the listings are correct, if all the Guides are correct, then that is the most critically important thing.

Obviously we want people to know where our shows are. Obviously NCIS is 8:30 Tuesdays and always has been. If it’s 8:35 or 8:40 because I’m A Celebrity is live or running 5 minutes late, I think that’s ok as long as people know that and as long as we’ve informed everybody as clearly as we can and are honest about where things fall.

To tie ourselves into a corner where we can’t be flexible with a couple of minutes is difficult. But it’s important our audience knows where the shows are and we don’t disrespect people by moving them without telling them. We really try to tell people. But if a MasterChef producer says ‘this is an amazing episode and it’s 5 minutes too long’ we’d be crazy to cut those 5 minutes out.

It is difficult. (Other networks) do it because it works.

“We made every effort we could to be there, available, on those Junctions.”

BRENDAN DAHILL, ABC:

I think Junctions are largely irrelevant these days, particularly with the long-format Reality shows on 7, 9 and 10. You can’t predict when they’re going to finish at all. We don’t play fast and loose with our Junctions for no reason. The 7:40 one is only really on a Sunday night because we wanted to extend our News but we didn’t want to overstay our welcome. We felt the News was slightly bursting at the seams in the 30 minutes for the Sunday night so we wanted to create a bit more space for it.

Plus, some of the shows we play on a Sunday night, are only 50 minutes long which means you don’t quite get to the 8:30 Junction for our next show. And I would rather have longer News than have a filler in the schedule. So, for good editorial reasons, and for good logistical reasons, we extended our News to 40 minutes on a Sunday night.

When there was a regiment about there being a 7:30, 8:30, 9:30 Junction across the landscape − when things moved a couple of minutes in every direction, we made every effort we could to be there, available, on those Junctions. Now those Junctions no longer exist.

If a show delivers to me and they say, ‘It’s 32 minutes long and it’s perfect’ or ‘Do you want us to edit it back to 28 minutes?’, I’ll go with the 32-minute perfect version. So, it allows us a bit more freedom in terms of not having to edit shows back so hard. You can over-worry about a show and tinker with it too much.

So, we like to give the teams the freedom to deliver a show at the right duration for them, within a level of tolerance, because we need to communicate with our audience as well. Junctions are largely becoming irrelevant particularly in the world of time-shifting and iview and everything  else.

“I think that gives SBS an opportunity to be as consistent as we possibly can.”

PETER ANDREWS, SBS:

What’s important for us is consistency and we are aware of the competitive landscape in terms of a lot of the Free-to-Airs are moving over Junctions and running shows longer, and it’s really competitive. But I think that gives SBS an opportunity to be as consistent as we possibly can with the things that we control to be actually on Junction.

Some things you can’t control. Obviously with live content that tends to overrun, you have less control over that. So be it, that’s going to happen and you roll with that. But I see it as a bit of an opportunity for us to really drive home that consistent message. And one of the things I really wanted to highlight is the thing that we’re doing this year in 2015: that 7:30 on SBS ONE, every night, you are going to get the world’s best factual content at 7:30 every night. And it’s a destination that we want the viewers to know, starts at that time. So, again, it’s about being consistent and therefore, we’re likely to stick to junctions more than move off Junctions at this point.

“Our customers are liberated with technology that provides them with the ability to become their own Programme Director.”

BRIAN WALSH, Foxtel:

It’s an irrelevancy for us. Our customers are liberated with technology that provides them with the ability to become their own Programme Director. They can rewind, they can IQ and record, they can watch television at a time that suits them. So Junctions don’t have any importance for us.

What’s important is communicating where they can find their programming and what’s important is discovery. With all the great content we have on offer, the important thing is we enable and provide the opportunity for customers to discover all the terrific content we have on offer.

We are firmly of the view that Australians should be able to watch television with the rest of the world. It’s all about providing convenience. That’s the business we’re in.

(NB: Seven did not respond with a Programmer’s Wrap interview this year, when these interviews were conducted)

63 Responses

  1. Thank goodness these guys aren’t running out train time tables… train time would be 8.30 in print, 8.45 on the arrival board and turn up at 8.53.

    Most of us live relatively scheduled lives and don’t generally have time to waste. eg – get up same time, go to work same time, come home usually same time, after work commitments, etc – why TV can’t be like that as well now?

  2. Sorry Beverly McGarvie, the one thing we do know is that NCIS will never start at 8.30. And I’ve never seen anything from Ten to inform me what time it actually will begin.
    And what’s this garbage about live programs not being able to stick to a specified finish time? The news is live every night of the week and starts and finishes on time – every time.
    It’s more about not wanting to stick to hard finish times than being unable to.

  3. Firstly regarding the UK and US. Here in the UK we pretty much stick to hour and half hour junctions, though Saturday is and always has been the exception, with the odd show on Sunday running 45/75 mins too. Pre-recorded (and indeed most live shows) air in the slot they’re scheduled in – and scheduled around two weeks prior to broadcast too, not days before like in Aus and they still run over with a show pre-recorded weeks ago.

    The US is very strict on timings – if a show is scheduled to run just one or two minutes past it’s slot it is billed that way – plus of course the US schedule their main shows months in advance. We’ll know in June what the networks are planning to air next March – and the exact time too.

    This strategy for me (as an outsider) is just killing Aussie television. I probably first began looking at it around 2003 or so through following Big Brother…

  4. I don’t know why a lot of TV Stations would overrun shows by over 10 minutes. For example: Nine will have TBBT episodes at 8:45PM instead of the usual 8:30PM, although it could start late. Channel 9 was shamed for having a lot of shows starting late by over 10 minutes.

    1. Tuesday night’s Big Bang was weird.
      Advertised in print as 8.45pm
      Advertised by Nine on station as 9pm
      Advertised on EPG as 8.51pm
      I think I started at ? , well I don’t know because Ive given up not PVRing everything. How are we supposed to know if they don’t??

    1. OzTAM can collate data to the minute so no real change. Overnight data has always been Preliminary, meaning shows that run over need to be adjusted according to their actual running time. The issue of 7:40, 8:45, 9:35 junctions is not affected by Preliminary data, what affects the data is when they don’t run to the time they are allocated.

  5. When I set my PVR for FTA shows I often add 15 min to the start and up to 30 to the end, because you just don’t know if a show is going to start on time or end early some times, especial when live sport is involved or shows like IMASGMOOH.

  6. Programmers are free to start their shows at any time they choose. And as their clients, dissatisfied with this decision, we have the rights to abandon their service, adopt whatever means necessary to gain access to our desired contact and drive them into well deserved obsolescence. the ignorance of these people are breathtaking. The inconsistency is the very thing that drives people away – and once we’re gone, there is no reason to come back. Kudos to SBS and ABC who continue to treat their viewers with respect. The rest get exactly what they deserve.

  7. But what’s the solution? Are we so bereft of ideas that we must revive the antiquated notion of government regulation of TV scheduling? This commentator says yes.
    Surely all programming must be declared 7 days ahead, and changes in scheduling not allowed. Programmes should start and end on the “junctions”.
    No-one wants to see even one episode of “I’m a Celebrity”, we certain don’t need unscheduled simulcasts replacing the shows we were expecting.

    1. As with so many things in life, the solution can be found in the classic 80’s movie ‘WarGames’: “The only way to win is not to play.”

      Walk away, find something else to watch or do, and leave them to wonder why.

  8. I think it actually reflects more incompetence and laziness by the networks. They mention there’s 5 mins of stuff they just really can’t cut when in reality they include 10-20 minutes of stuff that shouldn’t be included anyway. The US reality shows Survivor, Amazing Race, Biggest Loser, Masterchef all air for 1 hour episode a week. They are able to edit the show so it is packed full of action. Compare that to our reality shows and they all air for several nights a week and even then they are much longer than 1 hour. And half of what is included is useless fluff. We have very poor program editors and even worse programmers here.
    And all the talk about updating EPG’s is irrelevant when they update them but continue to advertise original start time on their channels. I have never seen an ad saying NCIS tonight at 8:37. I’ve given up on Aussie tv, only the news for me. That’s how bad…

  9. The move away from junctions may not be impacting on reality tv but it is certainly having an impact on series tv, as is the later starting times which is evidenced in the ratings. I gave up watching series on free-to-air tv last year when start times were all over the place. Catch up tv or downloading content and binge watching is much more preferable.

  10. What Foxtel didn’t mention is generally most of the time shows will start on time but if they don’t you will always know how long you have to wait for the following program.On FTA watching through Foxtel i would say 3/4 of time you will be given the correct time when a program starts and then finishes.Can’t ask for much more than that.

  11. Well, they’re entitled to their beliefs.

    Just as I’m entitled to believe I’m doing nothing wrong by using Netflix, Amazon, and other online sources for the vast majority of my TV viewing, or using the PVR to skip the ads. To be honest, I couldn’t tell you the last time I watched a programme on a FTA commercial channel in real-time, and the last time I watched a programme from a commercial FTA channel at all can be measured in days, not hours.

    (p.s. how are things like “I’m A Celebrity …” considered to be ‘live’? From the little I’ve seen it’s a BB-style ‘best of stuff that happened’ with inserts that could easily be pre-recorded. Or does ‘live’ now mean ‘happened sometime in the last few days’?)

    1. Watched the first couple of episodes then gave up, but they’d consider it live as the voting portions happen in real-time with the results then presented to the cast in the final segment, but yeah 90% of the show would be pre-recorded.

  12. Yeah, I’m not really buying the “8.30 is irrelevant” argument. What happens in the US? As far as I know their networks stick rigidly to hour and half-hour blocks and face fierce backlash if they don’t. The UK might not be as tight but I don’t recall them doing what happens here.

    And just look at the numbers for any show starting here after 9.00… clearly people are not staying tuned to the same channel after said reality shows are finished and because of the varied/unknown times they’re not attracting people switching over from other channels, either. Why should people have to chase shows around the schedule according to EPGs updated at the last minute? Networks should be making viewing times convenient and known, not trying to trick the audience.

    At least ABC and SBS are a bit more stable, though even Q&A was late starting on Monday compared to the EPG.

    1. Yep, in the US, outside of sport and some award shows, everything finishes within a minute or 2 of the junctions – and that includes reality shows even when aired live, somehow their directors/hosts/stage managers are actually competent and can manage to get the show off the air on schedule without the 20-30min overrun. In the US if a show they were in charge of ran that far over, they’d be out of a job, here the networks probably give them a payrise.

      And just to showcase that this whole fluid overrun stuff is complete bollocks, somehow when the networks care about it, they’ve managed to finish their reality shows on schedule so stuff like How to Get Away with Murder and Gallipoli can start exactly at 9.

  13. “I think that’s ok as long as people know that and as long as we’ve informed everybody as clearly as we can and are honest about where things fall.”

    And they say Australian network comedy is dead…

  14. If the networks are certain that the fluid junctions are working, why are ratings dropping? They are just pushing more and more people away. The dangerous bit is, with the other offerings (Catchup TV, NetFlix, illegal downloads, etc), the networks are losing money by doing this practice and slowly killing themselves in the practice.

    The networks will do better once they stop going against the flow, and go with the flow. People want to know exactly when their shows start. They want to know exactly when their shows end. And People want their shows fast tracked.

    Once networks start and stop shows on time and fast track shows, I think ratings will get higher, but it won’t be a tomorrow effort.

    TL;DR – Fluid junctions don’t work, fast tracking does work, and stay on time.

  15. That’s what they think !

    I like my shows scheduled on the Half hour

    If I find they are not or if the commercials are just too much to bear they go straight to PVR

    (and I have an ad jumper)

    I realise this is a difficult time for the commercial networks with the advent of all the new streaming players in the game

    But this mentality just pisses me off

    I’m with Packer – Be on time ! – and programs are created to run for 30 mins or 60 mins with the required amount of advertising – so do it !

  16. We record everything and generally watch nothing live other than sport or a major event (and I don’t mean a reality finale, a big bang episode or drama premiere as an event). With no junction times and completely different starting and ending times on all channels including each networks’ own multis you can end up with situations where you realistically can only record one show at a time – even though your PVR can record 2 at once just because of a few minutes difference in start and finish time.

    So what do you do? Go searching for a repeat (easily done for Foxtel), chop a few minutes off one of the shows, look at other means or forget it altogether – more often what happens – as trying to watch what you want on TV shouldn’t be so hard!

  17. What is really annoying to me is when shows run overtime and tv guides do not reflect this. Surely tv stations know if their show is going to go for 1 hour or 1 and 15mins! Nothing makes me more angry than missing the end of a show, if i am taping it.

    I am also sure most these shows do not warrant running 10 – 20 mins overtime anyway, most reality show say the same thing over and over and are so drawn out its painful. Cut the cr@p and there would be no need to finish at 8.45 instead of 8.30.

    Anyway their loss! This format worked out well for Gallipoli didn’t it.

    I personally don’t watch much at all on FTA and i certainly do not watch anything live. I know foxtel has its issues but at least show start and finish when they say they are going to.

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