All Stories FeedWhat do you expect of your EPG?
The Australian Communications and Media Authority has declared a number of minimum standards for electronic program guides provided by free-to-air broadcasters.
The key ingredients are what ACMA identifies to be uniformly available on EPGs for viewers, but at the same time only promises to act if broadcasters don’t meet the criteria.
“In general terms, ACMA will consider formal regulatory intervention if it forms a view that the EPG offering from industry participants does not conform with these general principles,” Chairman Chris Chapman said.
“The publication of the EPG Principles provides guidance and assistance to those supplying EPG data for free to air digital television services, by establishing a clear performance benchmark.”
The key principles it has outlined include:
- A free EPG provided by all FTA broadcasters
- accurate timing information (including starting-times)
- a minimum of seven days of schedule information
- inclusion of parental guidance ratings
The issue of what constitutes an acceptable EPG however, surely goes much further than ACMA’s barebones principles.
For instance, what is the point of having timing information if a network neglects to stick to it? Is ACMA now suggesting this bane of television viewing is now up for industry enforcement? We can only hope. Networks that are notorious for starting programmes late, always seem to manage their 6pm News starting on the dot.
Similarly, a seven day schedule dotted with ‘TBAs’ falls short of fulfilling its purpose. How will ACMA address networks which don’t release their information until days before airing? And what of programming changes -how quickly should a network be expected to update the information?
Other data overlooked in ACMA’s principles include “drill down” info such as synopsis, closed captions, repeat, movie year of release & country, widescreen and whether broadcast in HD or not.
ACMA only says its EPG Principles will need to be reviewed from time to time and that it will monitor the industry for compliance.
FreeTV Australia, which represents Free to Air networks, issued a supportive statement saying, “All commercial free-to-air networks have been broadcasting their program information over the air and in the clear for over a year and we welcome the certainty these principles provide the industry and Australian viewers.”
This week ACMA also announced the formation of a centralised Digital Television Branch to help with the task of bringing all viewers across to digital television by 2013, offering the industry a single point of contact.
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I have ahuge problem with the EIT epg for 9HD in Adelaide… it is shocking.. it doesnt say what is on. it just has the same data as the 9SD chanel with “HDTV Demonstration” at times when there is actually unique shows being broadacst oh 9HD… this is really poor. Common Nine!! Pick up your game
wow, the ABC EPG is now showing 6 days worth for me, although there are a few gaps here and there but still, much improved.
I really do hope that people from the channels read these sort of discusions becuause they could sure learn alot.
I agree with other re nine and not giving the title of the movie. ‘….At The Movies and then the synopsis is just pathetic, we dont even get the damn title!
And something needs to happen with shows running on time. Maybe ACMA should be giving them a little kick in the behind.
i think the 9 EPG data sent out reacts differently with different machines, or perhaps it is locality based but there are some people saying that the title is not available in the EPG at all, for me i see a listing of “saturday movie” etc at the first level, then i press the info button and i get to see the name of the movie, as well as a description and possibly some of the actors, but i cannot press info again and access more stuff, if i press info again it just takes me out of that screen and back to the first level. the second level does however often have sentences that get cut off, sometimes you can scroll down to see more but sometimes it is just cut off and there is no way to get the rest of it on my machine. it is quite possible that the software our machines use is treating the data it gets differently depending on your machine. because this results in some people not being able to find out the name of the movie at all i think that alone is enough reason for 9 to change its practices and list the movie title the way 7 or 10 do. if they want it to stand out as a movie rather than a show why not just put M- in front of the title like 7 does.
To those here who think “on time” as far as EPG’s and programming goes is not important and there are bigger issues in the world – yes there are bigger issues, but imagine if all businesses worked like that. You local store opened at 9.15 instead of 9am. Your 11pm bus / train you missed because it left 10 minutes early. Or that last train of the night never turns up (Cityrail / Conex bad examples but still there is a point). A 2pm appointment is more like 1.50 or 2.15?
Most modern life does not work on this basis where the time it is scheduled to is meaningless and not adhered to, so why should it on TV (In fact, in Fiji, they call it Fiji time, but their few TV channels run exactly on time!). We are in a highly developed country and not Iraq, Nth K, etc and businesses and services here should be run as such, and show respect for their viewers / customers / advertisors / clients, etc. Being on time is a sign of respect.
A Rob – ch 9 does not list their movie titles in the epg at all, the only way you will find it is if you wait for the ad break.
Oh deary me, Paul of Perth. Life’s just too hard isn’t it? If only we could be more like China, Iraq or North Korea. I hear they all have great EPG’s and everyone is happy!
It’s starting to sound like the ACMA is as useful as the Petrol Commishioner. All talk and absolutely nothing practical to help. We have been encouraged for years to go digital and now the Freeview crowd want us to change our STB’s & PVR’s to their new digital standard. How hard is it for a digital signal be sent at the start of and at the end of an EPG selected program. I am fed up with setting weekly EPG selected shows only to find that I managed to get half of them because of time overuns. If I were the TV channels I would be very worried about more people getting fast internet access as that is were I’ll be getting my shows from.
I’ve noticed some confusion with users commenting on this story. I reckon the image of the ‘7 Guide’ is a little misleading. Everyone, this article actually relates to the program guide data seen on your set-top box information panel or EPG grid, not that channel which used to show a brief TV guide, news, weather, time etc. They’re now long gone and the networks have no intention of ever returning them (thankfully!)
pressing the info button again (or equivalent) will bring up the synopsis which includes the title and film details. For 9 and 7 the detail seems top be cut off midway after a few lines while Prime and NBN tend to put whole details in
the extra buffer you add each time is easy to add on but requires more work for your PVR (i.e more power more pollution more cost). That is a bigger cost than pressing info a couple of times a day for 9 movies
Rob says:
June 3, 2009 at 3:35 pm
bindi your impatience makes you miss the movie not 9 syain its’ the Late Movie. It like complaing the PC takes too long to start up (30 seconds) when it should be quick (15 seconds). Some extra seconds make little difference compared to missing the program when it says it starts at 10.30 and comes on at 10.50
huh? can you please explain i don’t know what you are talking about, are you saying that if i leave the EPG on screen longer it will show the title of the movie instead of “saturday night movie” etc on channel 9? coz i can tell you now it will not, i could leave it on screen till the cows come home it will always say the same thing. 9 always says some generic thing telling you it is a movie and if you want to know which movie it is you have to press the info button to see a more detailed description. the reason i miss these movies sometimes is coz i scroll through the EPG and i think that i have already checked that movie and know what it is and didn’t want to watch it, but sometimes i haven’t checked it and i did want to watch it. i don’t do this with 7 or 10 though because i can see what movie it is straight away without having to stop scrolling and push the i button. if you thought i was talking about missing movies due to not allowing for a buffer i was not, i always add at least half an hour to the end of 9 movies. it is simply the added and unnecessary inconvienience i am talking about.
also i agree that 7 and 9 writing everything in capitals is annoying.
The most annoying thing with the old EPG was having to sit through the entire day’s programming to get to the time you wanted to see.
Three side-by-side lists of daytime, primetime and offpeak would be a lot easier.
Has anyone else had a gutful of Nine’s “Tuesday Night At The Movies”? Just give us the movie title for god’s sake.
9HD in Adelaide have the same information as the 9SD except in the mid morning “HDTV demonstration” pathetic
i must be the only person in australia who doesnt care about an EPG. I never use the damn thing! As for programs starting on time, to be honest, most nights i just watch ch7, flicking over to ch10 on the ads, so it doesnt matter what time a show starts or ends. I just get all my time/day info from the ads.
But i do admit, the only time i use the epg is to pick a movie to watch on a sat night, and its bloody annoying when the only information they have up there is ‘Saturday Night at the movies’. Thanks ch9, but i could’ve worked that one out on my own!
FTA networks are from the stone-age, if only they had any idea how many more viewers they’d have if they published the broadcast information accurately and completely. They’re probably still trying to understand what this new-fangled ‘internet’ is all about…
I want a week standard or more set for all networks and HD channels + to all run on accurate times.
That is all.
bindi your impatience makes you miss the movie not 9 syain its’ the Late Movie. It like complaing the PC takes too long to start up (30 seconds) when it should be quick (15 seconds). Some extra seconds make little difference compared to missing the program when it says it starts at 10.30 and comes on at 10.50
On Tuesday night, Homemade ended and Two and A Half Men began at 8:42PM on Win in Country Victoria.
The EPG said 8:30PM.
I would argue that 12 minutes is more than a statistical anamoly but a genuine problem. Any program that starts twelve minutes later than the advertised time is going to be missed by a lot of viewers.
I believe that a fairly strong argument could be put that televisions guides (printed or electronic) represent a contract between the television network and the viewer. The network is asserting that it is going to provide a particular service at a particular time and the viewer is agreeing to watch that program (in essence, to purchase the service) at that time. The provision of the commercials as the fee for watching the program may be sufficient to be deemed to be an exchange of consideration and to make the contract binding.
I just wonder if anyone has ever attempted to seek damages from a network as a result of late programming and therefore a breach of the contract?
The hardest part would be proving the damage suffered – be it emotional or similar loss.
How pathetic. Since when do we need the government to regulate our television guides!? It’s bad enough that television itself can’t operate on a free market thanks to censorship, but this is just absurd. If you don’t like the way the networks conduct their businesses, read a book. Don’t go running off to your precious government demanding they interfere in private affairs.
i agree in relation to the title of the movie.. there is a description of the movie (including the cast !!) but no title.. how difficult could that be ?
ITA it’s amazing how all the networks manage to start their nightly news on time but as the night goes on the start times stretch to 5-10 or even 15 minutes late with no change in the EPG, but over on Austar the start times are to the minutes. If they know a show is starting late they say so and its usually right.
About time FTA picked up their game!
Andrew B “Why should we have to set 10-20 minutes overruns on PVRs just to make sure we get the show we want recorded?…” exactly well put, and even sometimes start them early…Seven and 30 rock
What is the point of enforcing accurate start times of EPGs when every other timetable has inaccurate times and they do nothing about it? I even wrote to the ACMA a year or so ago, complaining about overrunning shows, and they said that they are not in a position of power to enforce network lies about start times. Shortly thereafter, i stopped watching the commercial stations and started sourcing programming elsewhere.
the only one in compliance is 10, they have minute specific times but 7 and 9 don’t. ABC only covers 1 or 2 days, and this sometimes results in me missing shows coz i program once a week usually, SBS is probably ok but i never look at it. also 9 should change the way they list movies, they call them the saturday night movie, the late movie, the late late movie, you have to push another button to see what it actually is, this sometimes causes me to miss movies i would have otherwise watched, this never happens with 7 or 10 who name the movie properly.
So what’s really going to happen – they’ll have EPG guidelines which will be weak and never enforced probably allowing for a 5 minute grace, just like Cityrail’s definition of trains running “on time”. (@Paull – exactly what I compare them to as well!!)
Its the 21st Century. An EPG, from which most of our viewing and recording is derived, should show accurate times. Only 10 and ABC manages to do that all day and night.
Why should we have to set 10-20 minutes overruns on PVRs just to make sure we get the show we want recorded?
1. Put the title in the title. Yes I am talking about you channel Nine(Eastern States) putting it in the short description for movies. (Dumbarse freetv’s engineering guidelines.)
2. Not all CAPITALS, they suck to read.
3. Don’t truncate descriptions, use multiple extended event descriptors if required.
4. Content advisories and closed caption status should be included as well as rating.
The already stated, must be EIT based, 7 days.
Wish list:-
Language (for foreign films).
Director.
Year.
Cast.
Episode name (Nine(Eastern states) does this now, well done).
Country.
TV Anytime style series link stuff included.
Previously shown and Live indicated.
Proper HD and DD 5.1/etc indicated.
Channel 9 and Connex should merge. They both have problems delivering on time shows/services!!!!
i would like to see info on programs for channel 10’s epg, in perth we get nothing
WIN Tv are hopeless..infact all regionals are…Prime dont even bother sometimes and they certainly dont look like the screen grab used at the top of the article
All these FTA organisations are just plain woeful.
No wonder people are turning off in droves.
The other day my mother in law tells me that she finds her IQ unreliable in that it cuts off the ending of shows, this is the same machine that add five minutes to either side of a program to make sure you catch the whole thing – so I asked her
“Were you trying to record something on Channel Nine?”
“Yes actually”
There you have it. Back when Ten was copping all the media flack for their ridiculous overruns on reality skeins, Nine and Seven were beefing up their current affairs shows which sometimes run up to 40 minutes per night!
I used to absolutely hate watching something on Nine the switching channels (often to Ten) to find that the show I’d switched to had already been on for 7 minutes!
i certainly look forward to recieving accurate starting times for programmes on 7 and 9 (9 being the worst by far).
In fact, channel 9 is like city rail, never know when the train is going to come.
Channel ten are champions! Everyday they update their epg to reflect accurate starting times.
ABC needs to have more than a day or 2 on their epg, its annoying, youd think more from a network that has successfully used multi-channeling and online catchup.
this doesn’t go anywhere near as far as it should.
Well, Nine/WIN ran a movie last night. The EPG said “Tuesday Night at the Movies”. No more info. Still don’t know what the movie title was, but from ten seconds of it can remember it’s been on many times before. The timings displayed by all channels are way out. The information is frequently missing or just plain wrong. The claim that “All commercial free-to-air networks have been broadcasting their program information over the air and in the clear for over a year” is not correct. Some may say, a lie.
I have noticed that ABC only has 2-3 days worth of information on their EPG but they have the correct starting times ie Spicks & Specks 20:33-21:01. Nine here in Adelaide only go up to 3 days and i don’t know if it is a Win thing. The 9HD EPG is wrong with no breakaway programming listed but the HD demonstrations are their despite no longer airing. I am not sure if 9HD has a proper EPG or if it is 7 days on the PBL owned stations. The ABC and Nine would have to update their EPGs.
SBS has a 7 day EPG and SBS2 now has listings thankfully. Seven needs to put up accurate starting times as they usually start late. Ten are accurate on the day with 7 day listings.
All EPGs should be like Ten and SBS with 7 days and accurate starting times.
Will the ACMA act to make regional broadcasters adhere to these minimum standards? Here in Tasmania, the only reliable EPG available is provided by the ABC. SBS doesn’t appear to have any EPG information at all, TDT usually has information on that evening’s programs, at least, but Southern Cross, and in particular, WIN, are very unreliable. Not that I often watch WIN, but I have noticed that they have little or no EPG information more often than not, and SC is very inconsistent.
I don’t know how this compares with metropolitan areas (although I’d be interested to know if it’s any better – from your comments, David, it doesn’t sound it!), but industry enforcement would be welcome, as far as I’m concerned. It really is a guessing game with the networks these days, as too often the newspaper guides are out of date even the day they’re published – I’ve been caught out more than once. Thank goodness for this site!
FreeTV Australia, which represents Free to Air networks, issued a supportive statement saying, “All commercial free-to-air networks have been broadcasting their program information over the air and in the clear for over a year and we welcome the certainty these principles provide the industry and Australian viewers.”
My local Prime does not broadcast their program information over the air.
In Sydney, Seven starts their 6pm News at 05.59.45 on the dot each day, with Nine starting at 05.59,40 on the dot each day. Amazing how this is possible, but all other program start times stray all over the place, with Nine being the worst, sometimes even starting programs several minutes early. Why do they bother sending out an EPG at all? The techbology exists where the station presentation/transmission play out automation system can be linked to the EPG to give send out to the second actual start times. But I am sure the likes of Nine would rather choke than ever let that happen. No wonder Australia is one of the leading countries when it comes to sourcing programs off the net.
They need to specify that the EPG must be available via EIT at a minimum, otherwise the networks will happily “comply” by providing everything specified, but only via MHEG-5, which will only be available on Freeview-approved STBs/PVRs/TVs.
Can’t wait to see the comments on this one
I’ll be back later on to add the thoughts that many of you already know I’m going to have