Caught a bit of Downton Abbey on Sunday night, but it was beyond ridiculous trying to read the credits.
They were completely swamped by a promo for the next episode taking up more than half the screen. So why bother running them, Seven?
Viewers are regularly frustrated by networks skipping credits, when trying to find out the name of an actor from scene 13. TEN drives viewers to their website to read them, which I suppose is some kind of awkward middle ground (although you try reviewing an advance episode when they haven’t posted the credits yet, ugh!).
Anybody have any better suggestions how networks can handle these?
I hate watching a drama that has a sad or dramatic ending and then hurtling straight into a loud promo or the next show. You only need 20 seconds – enough time to pause and reflect. If they just played music and quick credits for 20 secs without loud promo’s it would be perfect for me. I actually enjoy theme music at the end of a show.
@Kenny – they’re too busy lobbying foreign governments to get them to enact legislation making it someone else’s responsibility to protect the studio’s copyright.
A standard clause in a program licence contract reads “Licensee shall telecast each program as delivered, in its entirety and Licensee agrees not to cut, change, alter, modify or add to the prints of the programs, or any of them, without XXXXX’s prior written consent. Under no circumstances shall Licensee delete or reposition the copyright notice or the credits and billings incorporated in the programs as delivered by XXXXX.”
So, when is someone going to enforce that? Fox, Sony, WB, etc. Looking at you.
No p.s. required, this length is fine!
They may have edited the credits out to stop people from flicking over. Ironically it does the opposite to me by either skipping or skimping on the credits it makes me flick over quicker as there’s often no reason to stick around i.e. credits and music. The only exception is if I know I want to watch the next show. It’s rare on the main channels except Downton and Castle.
I’d only flick over before any credits end if they are ridiculously late and I might miss something on another channel that I know is on. But usually I don’t care that much. Rarely the case with the ABC and SBS. I like promos but not if they ruin the credits. I like how Eleven plays the promo for next week before the credits show up if they have one.
P.S. Sorry David.
Maybe more shows should adopt the Modern Family (or Kath & Kim as noted already) approach and just run the credits over the final scene/s so everyone’s happy except the network exec that wants to cram more Being Lara Bingle promos beside them! (No loss, really)
@Russell: MKR and TAR:A would often play credits squeezed under the promo for the next episode. They go so quickly though you’d never be able to read them.
For anybody who wants credit rolls left ‘as is’: The next time you are in a cinema, watch how many people leave the moment that the credit roll begins. That is what ‘squeezed’ credits are trying to prevent.
As always, if you don’t like it, don’t watch.
I don’t really care for credits, I could do without them on screen … but I think it is fair they should be posted at the very least online or something.
None of the commerical news/breakfast shows, etc have any credits at all, apart from maybe a copyright statement if that, so I think it’s only fair to put them online for those interested.
Please keep comments succinct guys.
I would be happy if they show the credits in a static grid format like Neighbours does. Also enables a promo to play on half of the screen if the network wishes. I think that’s the best way.
Looks like they’re the same as UK’s version. ITV simply move them over to the left and shrink the sides, allowing the top right hand side for the promo and the bottom half for name/time. No need to shrink the font. Shame the channels can’t have a couple of templates on standby for the different types.
My suggestion is they play the credits as they are supposed to, that is full screen. Many, many people are interested and some of us who watch TV can also read. Something the networks haven’t really caught onto yet.
Ironically you’ve kind of posted the best way to do them as ITV (who broadcast Downton in the UK) centralise all their credits as shown and they simply move to the left side of the screen to allow a promo to air on the RHS.
ITV does this with Downton Abbey in the UK too. As they do with most of their shows, and BBC as well. Likewise all US networks do this with their shows – and all US cable networks to. So it’s common practice.
US Screen Actors Guild and unions require credits be displayed, but squeezed and reformatted credits are completely legal.
You’ll notice on many Australian productions like Amazing Race and MKR Seven plays almost no credits, just sponsor logos and “with thanks to” messages. No one is complaining about that?
Australia doesn’t have a actors / producers guild requirement that requires credits to be shown – unlike US shows.
When your have ep of Downtown airs in the UK it gets squeezed credits. And when you have ep of Revenge airs in the US it gets the same treatment. A original credit roll is always created by the show, but US and Oz networks prefer to use the reformatted approach.
They do this (obviously) to minimize switch off between shows and increase viewer retention from show to show. Increasingly viewers are quick to switch and competition is fierce. It’s a tough ask to expect a network to run 30-60seconds of black rolling credits full screen and risk losing 50k -100k viewers who get bored and switch to a rival network.
Look at the ratings everyday – it’s cut throat between Seven Nine and Ten. Any trick or device to keep viewers show to show is just a reality and smart execution. Any network that is not doing this is stupid in my opinion.
The reality is the vast majority of the viewers really don’t care about credits. Main actors, producers, directors and production stuff are included in opening credits, and keyed over opening scenes. Secondary production staff go in end credits.
The amount of people who want to see who the foley artist was on Revenge or who played “Bad Guy #4″ in CSI are a minority.
Most people would rather skip the credits and see what is coming up next week on their fave show.
@ Matt F …well mine are red/green/yellow/blue..but what the heck they do…I don’t know….*G*
(will have to find instructions)
The best thing that program producers can do to make sure the credits get played in full and not to be butchered by the networks, is to have a Coda at the end of the program with the credits showing over it, like Kath and Kim used to do with the Wine Time at the end of the show. Effectively the show is still running with dialogue while the credits are being shown and it’s impossible for the networks to cut into it.
You know those Blue/Red/Yellow/Green buttons on your Digital TV remote?
How about using those?
Any one else notice that credits at the start of US shows go on for ever? House, Grey’s Anatomy and Desperate Housewives can still be showing credits 15 minutes after the show begins. That is more annoying to me than squashing the end credits.
BBC used to show the Neighbours credits with the credits scrolling on the left hand side, then a box in the top right showing promos. Worked well for them and nothing was squashed or illegible.
Or networks decide to cut the end credits out or they decide to speed the credits up. Eleven and 7TWO I’m looking at you.
Same, same. Just play the credits as intended. If I liked the program, I’ll watch next week. Plus if they show an ad for the next week, I always turn off/over as I don’t want to be spoiled. I like to enjoy dramas as they unfold and not know what’s coming up halfway thru. Of course, it doesn’t actually matter with Seven as they show bits from eps several weeks away.
If they’re going to have such disregard for the people that made the show, I’d say don’t bother.
Run whatever crap they want at the end of the show, but include a shortened URL (eg seven.tv/DA14) and a QR barcode that takes you to the IMDB record for that episode.
Whenever I see someone I want to look up in an episode, I launch IMDB anyway.
Why don’t they just show the credits in large print but scrolling at the bottom of the screen? That way if you’re recording, you can pause on what you want to read. That seems obvious to me.Why hasn’t anyone ever thought of that?
Yes, play them in full. Some films have *Academy Award winning songs* in their closing credits, and they’re still sped and silenced.
Just play the credits, whatever happened to theme music? And have a small teaser promo rather than giving away what’s going to happen. Simple.
You know what’s even more stupid and annoying. They play an ad for next weeks episode during the credits. Credits finish and it goes to an ad, and they play the exact same ad for next weeks episode. I think Offspring did that quite a lot.
i am more interested in the promo, why is that so squashed? if people want to know the names of cameramen and hair stylists i say go online and find out for yourself.
The way to fix it is no promos over credits, no promos over the screen while a show is playing, and no pointless promos for the show that’s just about to start (and which gives away plot surprises. Did you know Jamie Oliver was going to be on Masterchef this week? What a surprise that was. Not)
just do away with the promo. if we like the prog we will be watching anyway and dont need some programmer treating us like children
I like reading the credits….not just for actors….but yes…although I did not see this….many times they are way too small to read….or go through at such a speed, you again are unable to read them…
Solution…just show the credits as is…stop fiddling….
Like that is going to happen…
Here’s an idea so the credits then run a promo for next week. But this is not just a local problem, seem some shows from the US and they do similar for some shows in prime time.
Why is it the digital channels manage to show the credits in full without promos stomping on them but the main channels get butchered, if they bother showing them at all.
I reckon that having the credits on their website’s probably the best idea if they’re just going to play them at unreadable speeds anyway.
Channel 10 completely remove the opening and closing credits to the longest running show on their network: The Bold and the Beautiful. When asked of they could put the unedited content on their website instead of the broadcast edit, the response: No
Complete disregard for the viewer.
It shits me no end!!
The ABC does it well. Reformatted credits play on the RHS of the screen with a reduced size promo for the next episode on the left.
Just play the credits like they were intended.
The people working on the shows work hard enough to get them out there. The least the networks can do is acknowledge them.
Not like the networks are that stretched for time…. everything runs over anyway
It’s not only frustrating to viewers but totally disrespectful to the production especially when they splash their loud promos over the credit sequence.
The classic was Ten’s treatment of Crackerjack where there was actually dialogue (from Bill Hunter IIRC) over the end credits and Ten decided to cover half the screen with ads for one of their ‘must see’ reality shows and with loud voice over as well so no chance of hearing Mr Hunter’s epilogue. Totally ruined the end sequence of said film. I’m sure it’s not the only film to suffer such indignity.
IMDB often comes to the rescue but that’s not perfect and also just having the credits is part of the experience of watching a program or movie. So many iconic shows are defined by their opening and closing sequences but these days shows are not allowed that sort of identity because it’s far more important that we get more reminders of what’s coming up on Master Chef
Really? Would it kill them to air programmes in the form (and sequence) they were produced?
This really is just one more reason why people increasingly source their TV shows in optical disc format, or as a digital download of some sort. The networks don’t seem to have realised that you can only treat viewers like mugs for so long in the current environment, as they *do* have alternatives to poor programming decisions nowadays. Seriously… If I have to wander off to the Net to look at credits, why don’t I just get the whole product there?
Thinner promo, and the credits vertically opposite, probably easier to read. Slowing the speed of the credits whilst playing an extended promo, bigger typeface as well? It’s a bit of a conundrum.
“Anybody have any better suggestions how networks can handle these?”
Well, they can play them as they come on the source. After all, if they want the credit for showing the programme (the purpose of the watermark in the corner), the least they can do is extend the same courtesy to the people that actually made the show.
Or, they can accept that shrinking them into blurred obscurity or lopping them off completely is yet another of the dozens of reasons why people turn to places like TPB. Sure, TV programmes from those sources often don’t have credits attached either – but neither do they contain 7 minute clumps of ads, have the programme trimmed to fit those ads in, and it’ll be on my TV when I expect to see it, not 5-20 minutes later.
Fair’s fair, guys – if you want us to put up with your behaviour, you should at least put up with ours.
Think I noticed 9′s ‘bastardised’ credits for Mentalist a week or two ago – top half of screen used for promo of something soon, while bottom half had three columns of readable credits, slowly either scrolling or fading to next page.
At least, this way, they were readable!